Who’s fault?
Published October 7, 2009 Catholic illiteracy , Church teaching , Personal reflections 75 CommentsTags: Belief in hell, Church crisis, Musings, Piers Paul Read
Tags: Belief in hell, Church crisis, Musings, Piers Paul Read
The priest said nothing about God being gentle with the shepherds responsible for the illiteracy.
Classroom and pulpit have been silent about hell. When novelist David Lodge wrote, “Around 1970 Catholics ceased to believe in hell”, writer Piers Paul Read added, “Not only did the laity cease to behave as if there were a credible danger of damnation, but the clergy ceased to preach it.” 
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Gabriella's Blog 
People THINK that Catholics are incredibly religious, but they don’t know anything about religion.
Thank you for your very instructive blog.
Gabriella,
You are so on the mark in this post. One of my own family members no longer believes in hell. He said that the bible isn’t to be taken literally. He has really fallen away from the faith. I worry about him.
If you set out to make me angry – this post in your Blog has succeeded.
I’ve always said that the Catholic Church (I’ll leave other denominations aside for the purposes of this debate) has abrogated all responsibility as far as teaching the Faith is concerned. I don’t mean towards children and our young ones, but towards grown ups too.
When is the last time we heard a sermon about the teachings of the Church? Heaven? Hell? Purgatory? And the teachings from the Cathechism? Come to think of it – is the Cathechism taught in our Catholic schools anymore these days? I doubt it in the UK.
All you get from the pulpit these days is some mealy-mouthed pap that is neither here nor there.
Priests and bishops no longer speak with one voice – each having a different opinion on fundamental basics of our religion such as Communion, confession, mixed-Faith marriages and so on. For example, were you aware that the Catholic Church is not fully in support of events in Medjugorje? I wasn’t.
Yet, many priests from the UK have led parishioners to pilgrimages there in a “private capacity” – whatever that means.
How can a priest go to a pilgrimage in a private capacity? If he leads the congregation there, the unknowing layman will follow him thinking and believeing it is OK and “legitimate”. How can he know differently? he is after all following his priest on pilgrimage.
Why can’t bishops use their authorities and stop such pilgrimages by their priests?
Priests and bishops have an added responsibilities in the eyes of God. As shepherds their role is to lead the sheep safely to Heaven. Instead they are only succeeding in shepherding a herd of cats scurrying and dashing all over the place.
And when the time comes, God will ask them to answer for the mess they have created in the Church He set up by St Peter.
Sorry for the rant. You touched a raw nerve.
Victor I am with you and Gabriella on this 100%…. rather angry!!! I remember someone saying on this blog that we should respect our priests and bishops and not criticise them, ’cause Pope Saint Pius X told us it was a grave sin to criticise the clergy.
Gee whizz!!! How can we do otherwise? Although really, we are criticising their wrongdoings, not them per se … I don’t personally know any bishop, for example, the one who celebrated Ted Kennedy’s life during his funeral … but I certainly abhor that type of hypocrisy, cover-ups and cowardice, especially if coming from a bishop!!
I am also angry at this: my son goes to a Catholic school (that costs an arm and a leg and every other part of the body) specifically so that he could also have proper Catholic religious instruction. Yet, every time I ask him “what did you learn in religion class today?” his answers are always something like this: “Oh, we watched the movie called Chocolat” or “We learnt about the Aborogines and what they believe in” or “we had to write about what we think of *****.” (***** is a “legendary” and “heroic” aussie football player who likes to use drugs, have sex orgies in hotels and get drunk every weekend).
So inevitably, grrrrrrrrr, every time, anger starts to swell up, and I have to go and find something to calm me down. And I have tried more than once to talk to whoever is responsible for setting the religious curriculum at the school, but to no avail.
I have recently had some very negative encounters with a couple of priests too … those encounters did not help one bit in alleviating my general disillusionment with post-modern clergy!
I would LOVE to hear from some priests and bishops right here on this blog: please tell us what you are thinking or doing about this abysmal situation. What is going on??? How did this HUGE misinterpretation of Vatican II come about?
I am totally disgusted and mind-boggled! And sorry Pope Saint Pius X, but it’s easy to admonish us that it’s a sin to criticise our clergy fullstop….. I don’t agree with you! I say it’s a SIN for clergy, representatives of Christ, to act the way they do, and an even BIGGER sin if we keep quiet about all their abominations and just passively accept them.
Now I’m heading straight for the kitchen to drink a glass of red to calm me down 🙂
questo post mette il dito piaga nella … ci fa vedere la deriva verso cui è andata negli ultimi decenni la chiesa … nonostante tutto continuiamo a difendere l’indifendibile.
Il solo riferimento sicuro che abbiamo in terra di Dio non è il Papa o la chiesa che come tutti noi sta scritto passerano …
la sola nostra certezza è la Sua parola … quella parola che la chiesa e i sacerdoti non sono più in grado di difendere dagli assalti del mondo che vuole plasmarla a suo piacimento …
Cinzia rassegnati…e se voi calmarti forse è meglio la camomilla…
Okay David, la camomilla !! 🙂
Pero’ dalla Chiesa – una, santa, cattolica e apostolica, fondata da Gesu’ – io non mi allontano, nonostante gli assalti del mondo.
E nemmeno mi rassegno – come hanno fatto tanti – rassegnarsi alle cose non giuste vuol dire essere d’accordo con esse, oppure vuol dire “vabbe’ non mi importa niente.”
Troppa passivita’ (passivita’? passivismo?) da parte di molti Cattolici – “live and let live” “don’t care” “so be it” ecc. NOT GOOD !!!
More camomilla please …. 🙂
Post molto valido, Gabriella!
Sai che ci ho pensato un sacco di volte anch’io, alle Messe dei funerali, che viene dato per scontato che il defunto sia in Cielo!
Credo di avere raccontato almeno 30 volte di Santa Bernadette, che diceva: “Mentre tutti direte: ‘che grande santa!’, io sarò a rosolare in Purgatorio.”
E se lo diceva Santa Bernadette, cosa dovrebbero dire la sciura Cesira e il sciur Ambrogio? “Pregate per me, se no resto qui fino al Giudizio Universale!” Ma il sacerdote tace. Forse, è una vera e propria omissione di soccorso.
E l’inferno? E chi ne parla? Certo, bisogna innanzitutto parlare dell’Amore di Dio. Ma io per la verità non è che sento esageratamente parlare dell’Amore di Dio. Forse è più frequente ascoltare un moralismo molto vago, con difficili traduzioni concrete, un grande lavoro sugli atteggiamenti mentali (che vaghezza!)… e pochissimi ascoltano.
Invece, se si parlasse veramente dell’amore di Dio, verrebbe conseguente parlare anche dell’inferno.
“Mi ami?” chiede Dio
“No” risponde la creatura: è l’inferno.
Questo era in estrema sintesi, poi si possono dire tante cose, ma era per mostrare il passaggio logico.
Ciao!
Aurelio
x Mary:
There are hundreds of people around like your brother, unfortunately, but don’t worry, just put him in God’s hands and, if you find a good biography by an exorcist, then give it to him as a present 😉 Books by Fr. Gabriele Amorth are excellent in cases like these.
x Cinzia and Victor:
You are right. I’m also very angry! And to think that once Catholic schools were the flower in the garden! 😦
St. Pope Pius X actually meant that for anti-clerical minds, those who criticize without reason and do it for hate but we faithful must correct our pastors – as I think Bp. Fulton Sheen once taught us (he truly was a great teacher!) and we cannot but agree with the Traditionals: the Church has confused and kicked out a lot of faithful since VatII so, let’s stick to tradition as St. Paul tells us and judge VatII by its fruits.
Thank God for the Traditional Catholics, these small groups of great Catholics! They are not afraid to speak out and they are martyrs as they are hated and criticized by all – yes, even by the ‘modern’ catholic priests and bishop who scorn them and ostracize them in every way, in disobbedience to the Pope.
You want your kids to grow up Catholic? Well, send them to a Traditional Catholic school (I know there aren’t many but are growing fast) or homeschool them.
ORSOBRUNO –
L’inferno tra i cristiani è l’annuncio, il dogma, che gode di minore simpatia e non ha molti credenti: solo una minoranza (così appare da recenti sondaggi) vi crede. E’ vero che non è la maggioranza statistica dei fedeli che stabilisce la verità di un dogma, ma è anche vero che il “sensus fidelium”, “l’istinto di fede dei credenti”, nella Chiesa ha il suo peso e il Magistero deve tenerne conto.
Così il Concilio Vaticano II descrive il “sensus fidelium”: “La totalità dei fedeli che hanno ricevuto l’unzione dello Spirito santo (cf. 1 Gv. 2,20 e 27) non può sbagliarsi nel credere, e manifesta questa proprietà che gli è particolare mediante il senso soprannaturale della fede in tutto il popolo, quando dai vescovi fino agli ultimi fedeli laici’ (8) esprime l’universale suo consenso in materia di fede e di costumi. Infatti, per quel senso della fede, che è suscitato e sorretto dallo Spirito di verità, il popolo di Dio, sotto la guida del sacro magistero, al quale fedelmente si conforma, accoglie non la parola degli uomini ma, qual è in realtà, la parola di Dio (cf. 1 Tess. 2, 13), aderisce indefettibilmente “alla fede una volta per tutte trasmessa ai santi’ (Giuda, 3), con retto giudizio penetra in essa più a fondo e più pienamente l’applica nella vita” (Lumen Gentium, 12).
Quindi è per questo che il Magisterio non ne parla? Per il “sensus fidelium”? O diciamo semplicemente che non ne parla più perchè non è politically correct?
There are 1,850 verses in the New Testament that contain Jesus speaking. In thirteen percent of those verses, Jesus speaks regarding eternal judgment and hell. Jesus spoke more about hell than about heaven!
Jesus taught that hell is an actual, literal place and He described it as a place of eternal suffering.
Many christians are ashamed of this biblical doctrine, viewing it as a blemish to be covered up by the cosmetic of divine love. But this dishonors God’s Word. Jesus warned His hearers of the eternal punishment awaiting those who reject Him (Matt. 13:40-42; 25:46). If we clearly and compassionately expound the truth about hell, we may be surprised to find people responding to it in faith.
The doctrine of hell does not stand alone as a kind of ancient Christian horror story. Rather, hell is inseparable from three other interrelated biblical truths: human sin, God’s holiness, and the cross of Christ.
Ciao Annachiara!
Forse, in origine, si voleva solo essere più positivi; o non spaventare i bambini [la qual cosa mi fa ridere: quand’ero all’asilo, verso il 1965, se un bambino faceva la spia alla maestra, sempre l’interessato gli cantava “Spia spia, non sei figlio di Maria, non sei figlio di Gesù, vai all’inferno incatenata, vai all’inferno e stai laggiù” e credo che questo non abbia mai provocato il minimo turbamento a nessuno; età: 3-6 anni!!!].
Diciamo che si è preferito sottolineare l’Amore, Gesù Cristo, il Cielo. Parlo di predicazione corrente e, come ho già detto, anche lì si è finito a fare parecchio moralismo (moralismo= quando un comportamento prescritto non è sufficientemente fondato e spiegato, pur potendolo essere).
Come Magistero l’argomento è trattato con ampiezza secondo me adeguata nel Catechismo della Chiesa Cattolica (1992): approfonditamente nei § 1033 e segg., in modo sintetico ma molto chiaro nel § 1861.
Dato che quel volume, per noi cattolici, non è una raccolta di pensieri, ma IL Catechismo, con un valore assoluto nell’indicare bene/male, giusto/sbagliato, chi nega l’inferno in nome di un presunto silenzio della Chiesa, va prontamente informato.
Spero di averti risposto!
A presto!
Orsobruno/Aurelio
Thank you for this post Gabriella…I must say that I am HAPPY to see how it has arisen in so many, a point of contention…for this means that there is HOPE and plenty of Catholics who still want to know, hear, preach, and teach the REAL TRUTH.
Before we homeschooled, our eldest daughter attended “Catholic” school. Once when they were conducting a survey of the students on their choices of behavior and involvement in drugs, alcohol, sex, etc…we were told that “GOD” was not allowed to be mentioned in any of the questions or answers for the survey was meant to be “scientific”…Imagine! NOT BEING ALLOWED TO MENTION GOD IN A CATHOLIC SCHOOL! They also read from the Koran and studied more about “world religions” than they ever did the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH…in fact, a teacher was FIRED for upholding that abortion is wrong and evil in her class!
That said, we must pray for those priests who seem to be a minority (but ARE still out there) who are TRUE to the Teachings of the Church and not afraid to preach it from the pulpit.
It is my personal opinion that NFP is one of the most grave ways in which the TRUTH has been watered-down, manipulated, and twisted so as to appease a modern thought, accommodate a selfish generation, and accept a “lesser of two evils” rather than stand by the TRUE Teachings of the Church. This “contraceptive mentality” (though not directly so in action…but NO action IS an action) has been passed off as Teaching with a capital T…when in fact, as Catholics NO ONE is bound to agree with or follow its practice. (A bit of a digression for which I apologize, but I think it does tie in with the topic)
Thank you Gabriella for reminding us of the FINAL FOUR…and also for reminding us of our responsibility to pass on the TRUE FAITH to our youth. (Alphonsus Ligouri wrote extensively about parental culpability toward the sins of youth)
Your post has obviously helped in getting true Catholics to “rise up and be counted”…May God use them to heal and lead His Church.
quando parliamo dell’inferno io credo che dovremmo sapere almeno cosa sia…io non penso che sia quello che abbiamo tutti nell’immaginario collettivo e come è stato mostrato a molti santi nelle visioni…o come lo descrivono i veggenti di medjugorie che ci sono stati portati…no io credo che Dio non sia tanto crudele…per me l’inferno non è il regno del terrore ma un mondo senza legge e senza amore.
Dear Judy, I also believe that there is HOPE and plenty of Catholics who still want to know, hear, preach, and teach the REAL TRUTH.
Our reaction to the doctrine of hell should be: “Whoa! I must really be bad!” The idea here is that the doctrine of hell casts negative aspersions NOT on God, but on us! Hell is perfectly consistent with God’s goodness and love. In fact, if hell did not exist, God would be wicked! He would be unconcerned about justice; uncaring toward the victims of our unrighteous deeds. He would be someone who simply winks at sin and never holds people accountable for the evil that they do. Hell, then, is an indictment against us. It points us to the sad truth about our sinful condition. It points us to the biblical teaching (confirmed in our daily experience) that human beings are morally corrupt, depraved, desperately wicked.
Those who react to hell in this way are not disposed to see an inconsistency between God’s goodness and hell. Rather, they are strongly inclined to feel an inconsistency between God’s goodness and the gracious and merciful way he treats us desperados. That is, there seems to be a “problem of God’s goodness”–why and how can he be so kind and good to us who are so bad? Why is it that we are not all cast into hell from the moment of our first breath?
We tend to assume that human beings are basically good (or, if bad, not all that terribly so). No wonder then that a God who makes a hell is seen as a malicious ogre! But, if we begin with the assumption that human beings are basically wicked (an idea taught on almost every page of Scripture (cf. Rom. 3:10ff., Eph. 2:1-3, etc.)), one will cry out with Paul, “Oh wretched man that I am! Who will save me from this body of death?” (Rom 7:24). And one will stand awestruck and eternally grateful when one finds that the God who owes him only His eternal wrath casts his sins into a sea of everlasting forgetfulness. Then one will know just how amazing God’s grace truly is.
@ david
lascia stare le apparizioni, visioni, ecc.
leggi il vangelo – come dice Michele qui sopra, ci sono 1,850 versetti nei quattro vangeli nei quali parla Gesù. Nei 13% di questi versetti, parla del giudizio e dell’inferno.
Dice che è luogo di eterna e terribile sofferenza.
Korrigan,
Your reply is very powerful. I will share the link to Gabriella’s wonderful post so as to share your thoughts with some friends!
THANK YOU! You have touched upon God’s greatest gift which, at times, can become our own cross…FREE WILL…and that, in choosing to sin against God, we “choose our own damnation”.
But I love how you also touch upon the Font of His INFINITE MERCY by saying that instead of leaving us with what we truly deserve, He
“casts our sins into a sea of everlasting forgetfulness”…
BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Non c’è sofferenza più grande di esserci allontanati da Dio e dal Suo Regno,con la presa coscienza di non poter tornare mai più indietro. Il verme della cosienza non muore. Non c’è sofferenza più grande di aver rifiutato Dio per l’eternità. Non c’è sofferenza più grande di un vagare nel nulla eterno e,nello stesso tempo,vivi. Il non essere mai nati sarebbe una dolce fuga,ma non potremmo farlo. La morte eterna è diversa dalla morte fisica. Questo mi fa più paura delle fiamme. Questo mi clpisce già abbastanza,se poi ci aggiungiamo le fiamme ed altre cose,ancora peggio. Rifiutare Dio? E’,secondo me,come aver scelto di rifiutare un amico. L’inferno lo scegliamo noi,con la nostra condotta e,soprattutto,con il rifiuto della Divina Misericordia. Purtroppo,ci sono persone così orgogliose che rifiutano persino la Misericordia. E llo fanno proprio per questioni di orgoglio. Rifiutare Dio,mentre il tempo passà? E’ simile a quando siamo indecisi se prendere un treno oppure no. Il treno è sempre lì,poi,ad un certo orario parte. Senti il fischio e il treno cammina senza poter tornare più indietro. E noi siamo lì,a vederlo partire,mentre la coscienza comincia a tormentarci,senza poter fare nulla più. Eppure,prima che il treno partisse,guardammo l’orologio. Mancava un minuto alla partenza e potevamo entrarci,ma nel dubbio o per inezia, non ci siamo saliti. Ognuno di noi,penso che abbia provato sensazioni del genere nelle faccende della vita.
Accettiamo di salire su questo treno. Accogliamo la Parola di Dio. I comandamenti. Riconosciamoci peccatori. Scegliamo l’umiltà e non il cieco orgoglio che porta a dire all’uomo che il peccato non esiste. “…Beati piuttosto quelli che conoscono la volontà di Dio e la mettono in pratica”. Ecco la grandezza di Maria,che senza dubitare accolse Dio e lo accolse per sempre. E anche con questo esempio di Maria,che Cristo ci sprona a seguirlo. Se i pagani erano così timorosi dei falsi dei e facevano ciò che veniva chiesto attraverso stupidi oracoli,noi che invece conosciamo veramente Dio,che facciamo? “Beati, coloro che conoscono la volontà di Dio e la mettono in pratica”. “Fiat mihi secundum verbum tuum” .Amen.
Shalòm
Andrea, tu scrivi in modo assolutamente fantastico e mirabile! Quello che scrivi tu dovrebbe essere il tipo di omelia da ascoltare in chiesa ….
Qualche prete dovrebbe prendere i tuoi scritti su questo blog, quelli di Gabriella, di Orsobruno, di Korrigan, di Victor, di Annachiara, di Mihailov, e tanti altri … e farne l’omelia per domenica prossima ……
Allora si … sarebbe un buon inizio! 🙂
“per me l’inferno non è il regno del terrore ma un mondo senza legge e senza amore.”
Come il nostro mondo …
The world today is pretty lawless and without love. Is it hell, or is it God just looking the other way since we seem to have ignored Him in most aspects of our lives.
caro Victor hai compreso perfettamente…il nostro mondo è un inferno poiché è un mondo senza la legge di Dio e senza il suo amore.
caro Stelvio…non ti sembra abbastanza terribile la sofferenza di questo mondo…che vuoi aggiungere di più.
Ti ringrazio Signore per la morte
con cui ci doni la via d’uscita
dall’inferno di questo mondo
dalla morte di questa vita.
Hell has been described in various ways by many people over the years. Whether it is full of fire and brimstone with devils poking you in the bum with forks or whether it is, as some say, the absence of God, we can be sure that it exists.
The fact that it is not taught about from the pulpit or not mentioned in Cathechism classes (assuming these do still occur in our so called Catholic schools) does not in any way diminish the reality that is hell.
It exists allright, and the only one laughing at the prospect that we don’t believe in hell is the devil himself. For it is his greatest pleasure that we don’t believe in him or in what awaits us should we stray away from God. Our disbelief makes his task and his temptations all the more easy.
No one goes to hell by accident.
We choose to go there by ignoring the various signposts in our lives showing us the Way to God, or, should we choose it the road to hell.
Those priests who abrogate their responsibilities and fail to teach about God and fail to warn about hell are only making the devil’s work that much easier.
Gabriella, Thanks for this post.
I love the discussion it has evoked here in the combox. As for my 2 cents. I agree wholeheartedly that we are not hearing what we should be from the pulpit. Our priests (some-not all) have become afraid. Shame on them for that.
Yes it is the job of our clergy to pass the teaching of the Church on to our young people, BUT it is also the job of their parents!
I speak from experience. My return to the faith is not due to my parents, but to the the good Sisters of St Joseph who planted many seeds, as well as a good friend who wasn’t afraid to talk to me about my lost faith. My parents, while they believed in God (and still do)and sent my sister and I to Catholic school, held and passed on a very worldly view. That teaching led to many poor and deadly decisions I would make as I grew into my teens and young adulthood. My sister unfortunately still lives that very worldly lifestyle.
So yes our clergy need to preach it, but what I fear is that sitting in the pews are many poorly catechized parents who do not practice their faith fully. And yes I realize this can be traced back to clergy as well.
The anger and frustration I read in the comments is justified; those of us who practice our faith need to shout a little louder perhaps.
Again-just my 2 cents or maybe 4 cents looking at the length of this comment.
Sorry for taking up so much room and time.
Invece io penso che questo mondo non c’entra ancora nulla con l’inferno. In questo mondo noi possiamo decidere di vivere un inferno oppure vivere un paradiso. In mezzo a tante tribolazioni potremmo anche essere felicissimi se avessimo veramente il cuore legato a Dio,come alcuni santi. Siamo noi che decidiamo di pregustare l’inferno o il paradiso nella misura in cui ci avviciniamo o ci allontaniamo da Dio. Questo mondo non è l’inferno,altrimenti non potrebbe essere salvato. L’inferno non è semplicemente l’assenza delle legge divina o dell’Amore di Dio,ma piuttosto e soprattutto la conseguenza di questa assenza. Nell’inferno c’è sofferenza per tutti coloro che ne fanno parte,non vi è neanche un pò di spazio per qualche passeggera mondana illusione,cosa che in questo mondo avviene. “Il figlio dell’uomo non è venuto per condannare il mondo,ma per salvare il mondo”. La Parola di Dio libera,per mezzo della grazia divina,l’anima del peccatore dalla depressione e dalle conseguenze di chi ha vissuto lontano dalla Luce della Verità. La porta della felicità celeste è l’umiltà di una anima che si apre a Dio con il cuore sincero : ” O altissimo e glorioso Dio,illumina le tenebre dl cuore mio. Dammi una fede retta,speranza certa,CARITA’ PERFETA,UMILTA’ PROFONDA…”,diceva Francesco.
Nel Signore,e cioè nella Carità,si trova la libertà del cuore,cosicchè il nostro essere vive nella felicità del Cielo,felicità che raggiungerà la pienezza una volta lasciato il “terreno della prova” per prendere quel posto preparato dal Signore nel Suo Regno,che è la vera vita. Ecco l’importanza della vita ascetica,di cui sono maestri i cari monaci certosini di San Bruno di cui si è celebrata memoria proprio ieri. Per tutti un augurio di vita ascetica nella Verità evangelica. Dall’inferno non possiamo tornare,ma dal mondo possiamo essere salvati.
shalòm
I totally agree with this entry, Gabriella. People need to hear from the pulpit about Heaven Hell and Purgatory. The priests are afraid to preach on these things because they don’t want to “offend” any of the parishioners. It seems that if the parents do not take the initiative to teach their children Catholic beliefs, then they don’t learn them.
…please.
preghiamo per l’Italia,dove si registra aria brutta in giro. C’è un aria di colpi di Stato. C’è molta incertezza e confusione. Tutti sembrano volersi accaparrare quel poco che ci sta,per i loro interessi particolari. Persino la Chiesa dei “cattocomunisti”,con i loro referenti in Vaticano. Non sono personalmente nè di destra nè di sinistra e neanche di centro,ma preghiamo affinchè questo meravilioso Paese non vada del tutto perduto e che le cose si mettano a posto perchè c’è un’aria molto cupa.
Hai ragione Andrea – solo le preghiere possono aiutare questo paese caduto così in basso 😦
Karin, I love your 2 cents 🙂
and fully agree with what you say!
I too had a very worldly view and was saved just in time from teaching my children that it was important to be pretty, to dress in fashion, to be singers, ballerinas, and so on.. Whew!! Thank God for His mercy!!
I tremble now when I think back and realize I was pushing them down a ravine.
Fantastic thread of thoughts here! I agree with everything. I agree with Victor that there is already a TASTE of hell here on earth – no love, no laws, no God … which is what everyone agrees hell is: a place with no love, no God, no hope, no joy, nothing but eternal suffering and desperation.
As Andrea says so eloquently in Italian: In hell there is no longer not even a glimpse of hope or the slightest passing of a mere illusion, but while on earth we DO still have the chance of turning back, of changing, of finding hope, finding God. That is the difference, even though not having God in one’s earthly life is indeed very much like hell.
Andrea gives us this wonderful paragon of how the train is patiently waiting at the station … and until the very last minute before it finally pulls away, we can get on board. After it has started to move and it’s gone … it will be too late. We will never catch that train again.
David, I have been reading your blogs, and lots of what you write is good and certainly true – but if you will permit me to say – there seems to be a lack of hope in there, a lack of trust that Christ is with us “until the end of the world.”
Andrea – povera Italia – my beloved homeland !! Preghero’ con tutto il cuore per essa.
I fully appreciate and thank every one of you for your 2-cents worth 🙂 More like a million dollars worth to me, ’cause I learn so much from the wise and meaningful things you all write.
Reading about parental responsibilities gives me these terrible pangs of guilt. I feel like a complete and utter failure. How do I start from here? …. help! I have never been any good at “passing on” my faith to others, not even in the family.
Oh, and one other thing:
Gabriella – methinks there is a very special spot in heaven with a “reserved” sign on it …… 🙂
Absolutely right, Gabriella.
I want, as a priest, to apologize to all of the faithful for the omissions and downright claptrap the clergy has foisted upon you all for all these years.
I believe Pope John Paul II, in speaking with a group of bishops, told them that the fault in the faithful not understanding and accepting “Humanae Vitae” was with the clergy; THEY would be responsible for those they lead astray or did not teach in a proper manner.
God will deal with us according to what we know and what we love.
But, please, everyone who reads this, say a prayer for your priests and bishops. The devil is assaulting the Church in the highest levels. Mary, Lady of the Rosary, pray for us!
I’m sorry if my comments made anyone feel guilty- not my intention. Just saying. Parents are children’s first teachers. If you practice your faith and are raising your children to do the same- then you do the best you can and put the rest in God’s hands.
Great discussion.
God Bless to all!
Karinann – I blame myself – not anybody’s comments … sorry I should have made that clear. 🙂
What I benefit from other people’s thoughts here is a very much needed “wake up call.”
Cinzia,
No problem. Prayers for you in this area.
OH Cinzia…yes…we are utter and complete failures MUCH of the time as parents…sometimes I can not FATHOM that GOD entrusted a fool like ME with His precious children!!!!!!!!!!!!!
However, we CAN begin TODAY…ANY given day…to make better decisions and choices; and, in CHRIST, have the COURAGE to teach as Gabriella suggests (in TRUTH, not in watered-down appeasement)…And we can “pass on the Faith” as you say it, by “LIVING IT” in front of our children.
What Morinne wrote above about almost “pushing” her kids “down a ravine” GAVE ME CHILLS…
I can look back in that ALL TOO CLEAR window of retrospect at times…and see SO PLAINLY how I failed my children! Morinne’s analogy of a “ravine” will stick with me into the future…
Let us RISE UP parents and ACCEPT OUR RESPONSIBILITY to serve, to teach, to guide, to support, and to hold accountable the sweet and precious blessings of children that God has entrusted to our earthly care! Whose with me?
I am with you all the way Judy …. but dear God! I feel so utterly useless. Talk about the window of retrospect …. gosh!
Enough of pussy-footing around corrupt and faithless Catholic Bishops and Cardinals. I live in a country where the Catholic hierarchy openly sides ( despite an occasional ‘politically-correct’ letter to save face) with a murderous regime headed by a brutal dictator. Our top prelate was seen at the ceremony of the presidential installation, depite the avalanche of evidence that the election was rigged and opponents slaughtered in their thousands. Our one-time vocal opponent of the regime
(Archbishop Pius Ncube) who gave Catholics a little hope was utterly discredited when caught in bed with one of his several mistresses- and photos were splashed across the papers. Sure, we are all sinners, but we haven’t accepted willingly high-offices like that of an Archbishop. These so-called prelates must be exposed and vilified wherever possible. They have ravaged (literally) the local Church- the proverbial wolves in sheeps’ clothing.
And beyond my own country? Have we forgotten the Cardinal Bernardins of this world? or the likes of Archbishop Weakland in the USA? Rather than depose Rembert Weakland as soon as his double life of prelate and sodomitical predator was exposed back in 2002 (when details of a $450,000 pay-off to one of his ‘conquests’ became public knowledge) John Paul II merely allowed him to ‘step down’.
And to think that the Milwaukee faithful spent the best part of 30 YEARS begging Rome to do just that – to act against his unspeakable perversions of Catholic faith and life.
And the European Bishops- notorious for their utter disregard for any Papal pronouncements or rulings? Most, if not all, come from a school of compromise and capitulation. Their complete unwillingness to tackle the monumental crisis in Catechetics, Liturgy, Faith and other critical areas, despite the factual evidence of a complete destruction needs to be confronted in any manner possible – well done to those exposing and attacking these wolves! The very rare prelates who have indeed shown the way by both speaking out AND dealing with abuses and deficiencies, like George Cardinal Pell of Australia deserve our fullest support and prayers.
As ever, God is testing faith and resolve to their outer limits. Betrayed on all sides, the Psalmist cried: “Give judgement for me, O God, and decide my cause against an unholy people: from unjust and deceitful men deliver me” [Ps. 42]. It is the cry of the moment from Catholic laymen and secular citizens alike. Surrounded by endemic corruption, injustice and deceit, their trust is shattered.
And so, amid the troubles of the world we are left, like the Psalmist, to “trust in God”; to lift up our hearts in praise and petition, urging the Master of the harvest to send us labourers: a Pope Saint, first and foremost, who will appoint the courageous bishops we so sorely lack but desperately need.
Sheeeehsshhh!!! After reading that, I am speechless.
Except for the obvious questions: why isn’t the present Pope getting rid of all these wolves? Why is that so hard? And why would it be taking so long if he IS doing something? Eliminate them as archbishops, excommunicate them altogether, send them as far away from the one true Church as is possible?
Surely he has the power and the authority to do that?
What the “hell” is going on?
Where is the Holy Spirit who is supposed to be guiding the Church? (sorry if this sounds blasphemous) that is not the intention.
Yes, a Pope Saint is needed first and foremost, and an army of saints …
caro Andrea questo brano di Amos ci mostra come nel giorno del Signore, che è l’ultima epoca della storia, ed io credo sia questa, sia impossibile avere il cuore legato a Dio…
Che sarà per voi il giorno del Signore?
Sarà tenebre e non luce.
Come quando uno fugge davanti al leone
e s’imbatte in un orso;
entra in casa, appoggia la mano sul muro
e un serpente lo morde.
Non sarà forse tenebra e non luce
il giorno del Signore,
e oscurità senza splendore alcuno?
in quest’epoca il peccato ci rincorre e ci travolge e se anche riusciamo a sfuggirgli e rifugiarci dentro noi stessi il serpente della nostra superbia ci morde.
mi pare di capire che siate tutti ingliesi…allora conoscerete il libro di Robert Benson vostro connazionale intitolato…”IL PADRONE DEL MONDO” in cui si mostra lo scenario degli ultimi giorni…uno scenario molto simile al nostro…
Io sono Italianissima!! 🙂
David, …. secondo me, e’ sempre possibile avere il cuore legato a Dio, specie nei momenti piu’ bui.
Hello, everyone
It should be pretty clear to us, having read each other’s comments above,that the Church (all of Christianity, IMHO) is infiltrated by the left. How else could we have such false teachings?
The hard-left plan is to take ‘God’ out of everything — school, public life — so that there is no ‘God’ left. Then, they can move in with ease to further their agenda. You have already shared experiences above that indicate ‘God’ cannot be mentioned in a Catholic school 😯 that teachings on the afterlife are watery, that faith is to be viewed as a ‘social’ rather than a moral, God-focused construct.
Most of today’s priests, nuns and lay teachers are already well into leftist thought, which manifests itself in moral relativism and flimsy belief. I believe these priests and teachers are what the Soviets called ‘useful idiots’ — there to do a job then be dispensed with eventually.
There are very few bishops who deserve to be in their position today. One in the US — Bishop Martino from Scranton, Pennsylvania — recently retired. He said he was too tired to fight any more battles. He was a good man and loved by the parishoners in his diocese. He’s probably one of the remaining few in the US who uphold the Church’s teachings 100%.
There is so much more to say on this topic. The fact that the wonderful Pope Benedict XVI cannot get rid of rogue cardinals and bishops concerns me deeply. It indicates that the problem (leftist infiltration) is much more ingrained than I had suspected three or four years ago. He may not even have enough advisors he can trust to help him — not sure. We probably won’t know the true story until sometime far into the future.
The longstanding leftist plan is to take down the Catholic Church, then the others will follow. My other concern in this area is that the Church will begin divesting itself of its properties and investments, which would be totally wrong. I said in a post of mine a few days ago that the Church is beholden to no one right now, and that’s how it should be. If you wonder about that, think about companies that require foreign investors (the US automobile manufacturer linked with Fiat [not a comment about Italy, just weakness in US manufacturing], Fox News which has a wealthy foreign investor) because they no longer have the capital to survive on their own. The day that happens in the Vatican will be a very dark day indeed. He who pays the piper calls the tune. Once you get outsiders in flashing cash, you’ve got to accommodate their plans.
Apologies for the long post. Happy to explain further, if you wish.
David — la bellezza di questo blog, unico nel suo genere, è proprio la sua internazionalità. E’ da molto che lo seguo e ho notato che ci sono molti Italiani residenti all’estero.
Il libro di Benson che menzioni è un capolavoro — per Benson, uno sguardo nel futuro che si è avverrato (hai notato che già parla di ‘aeroplani’ quando nei suoi giorni erano impensabili)?
Comunque, vedi, anche lui parla della fine dei tempi con pochi nuclei di Cattolici fedeli al Papa, gli unici che sono rimasti con gli occhi aperti.
Bellissimo il commento di African Observer! Complimenti!
Mi associo in pieno al pensiero espresso.
Purtroppo, Cinzia, penso che il problema sia il fatto che prima del concilio VatII il PAPA prendeva le sue decisioni da solo – dopo, purtroppo, è il ‘consiglio’ dei vescovi che decide con il Papa e suppongo che il Papa non può emettere un ‘Motu Proprio’ (decisione sua e solo sua) per ogni vescovo che deve cacciare! boh! Ma in un certo qual modo sono convinto che qualcosa, anche se piano piano, questo Papa sta facendo. Per esempio, se ha cominciato, contro la decisione dei lupi, con il voler ripristinare la Messa e fare ordine nei seminari moderni — beh! non possiamo non concordare che queste sono le basi per avere preti e vescovi santi.
Churchmouse, you’ve put your finger in the wound! Excellent comment! And I see you elaborate on this topic in your interesting blog which I count on reading thoroughly as soon as possible.
It has now been proven that there were over one thousand Communist agents ordained as Catholic priests or studying for the priesthood. They formed an efficient network whose main function was the infiltration, subversion and control of the Catholic press and Publishing Houses with the aid of Soviet money. New ideas were to be spread, a new religion was to be promoted. How well they have succeeded can be seen in a comparison of their avowed aims with the state of the Church since the Council.
Incredible as the current crises may have seemed some 30 years ago, it is here now for everyone to see. Surely the Pontiffs who have followed Pius XII must assume some responsibility for this, for such is the meaning of leadership: to accept responsibility. Their greatest error, no matter what their motives may have been, has been to throw the doors of the Church wide open just when the enemy was trying to get in, and they should have been strengthening the locks.
It was so easy then for the enemy, after the council, to steer the church their own way.
The saddest point that any ordinary person will note is that the Catholic Church was at its peak under Pius XII, worldwide – it was strong and spreading and respected by all religions. This makes the comparison with the church after the council even more tragic!
You can all imagine the difficult time our present Pope is having – and he knew it! When he was elected he asked us to pray for him that he would not fall to the wolves that surround him! And we must all pray for him, this brave man pulled on all sides by ravaging wolves who do not want to see their achievements annulled.
You are right! Most of today’s priests, nuns and lay teachers are already well into leftist thought, which manifests itself in moral relativism and flimsy belief.
Thanks so much, Llewellyn — I’ve got loads of posts on much of this but am writing more.
As you are reading through, please let me know if you are looking for anything in particular from the back catalogue — please feel free to leave a comment or question on any of my posts. Thanks!
Ma tu Cinzia vivi in italia o all’estero…
il legame che possiamo avere sempre con Dio è quello del desiderio immenso che venga dentro di noi il suo regno…di questi tempi dobbiamo accontentarci…
caro Domiziano fai delle osservazioni molto acute ma io credo che alla morte della chiesa di cui parla il catechismo della chiesa cattolica al 677 vada logicamente annessa anche l’infedeltà degli ultimi papi…
le porte degli inferi non hanno prevalso fino a che la chiesa è stata viva nella presenza dello spirito santo…ma ora che ha seguito il suo Signore nella morte…ora che siamo nel giorno del Signore…Satana ha preso stabile dimora laddove un tempo pulsava il cuore della cristinità…
noi sappiamo che la fine verrà sull’onda di un’impostura religiosa…io credo sia proprio questa…
ma se pensi che nel 1200 il Signore dovette suscitare san Francesco per riparare la sua casa che stava andando in rovina…in quale stato credi possa essere oggi la casa del Signore…nemmeno mille san Francesco riuscirebbero più a ripararla…
David, purtroppo vivo all’estero da moltissimi anni 😦 nientemeno che agli antipodi!! E il Bel Paese mi manca assai. E cio’ spiega anche il mio Italiano pessimo …
Veramente dopo aver letto i commenti piu’ recenti, a partire da quello dell’osservatore africano, comincio a pensare che tu abbia ragione … che siamo davvero alla fine dei tempi.
Se il Vaticano e’ ormai in mano al demonio … ci vogliono davvero mille san Francesco !!
After reading the most recent comments, starting from the African observer, I say it’s time we ACT and not just talk. As we are an international bunch of people, we should somehow stand firmly together and let our Holy Father KNOW that we are right by his side, helping him fight off the wolves.
If things are indeed THIS BAD (and reading Churchmouse’s recent posts too have re-inforced with me this whole issue of extreme leftists taking over just about everything) WHAT CAN WE DO? Surely together we can try something … anything … at the very least give our Pope some moral support, if nothing else.
Does this sound stupid? Any suggestions? Sure we can pray, but somehow I feel more is needed. If we can’t rely on godless bishops, then it’s up to us!
I am going to bed tonight with a very heavy heart. I knew things were bad and that there has been a crisis for years, but I honestly didn’t know things were THIS BAD. More than one thousand Communist agents ordained as Catholic priests!! …
Hail Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy. Hail! Our life, our sweetness and our hope. To you do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To you do we turn our sighs, mournings and weepings in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, your eyes and mercy towards us and, after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of your womb: Jesus! Oh clement, oh loving, oh sweet Virgin Mary.
Cinzia, i gather you’re in Australia 🙂 so, good night!
It’s nearly 7 am for me!
Wow! I love your plea to parents, Karinann 🙂 and i agree with you education in every sense starts at home. But these parents, like your parents, who are catholics in name only and sincerely believe in what they say are all around us nowadays.
A catholic mother said to me once: my daughter has gone to live with her boyfriend, nothing wrong at all, everyone does it!
Can you believe that?!
Therefore they are the ones to be taught first.
It’s actually a vicious circle, isn’t it?
Here’s the link – I suggest you all read Karinann’s testimony:
http://hisdaughter02.blogspot.com/
Cara,
It absolutely is a vicious cycle and I guess it does stem back to our clergy and religious. The comment by the mother whose child is living with her boyfriend does not surprise me unfortunately. That very situation is what is going on with my sister. My parents seem to be OK with this. I’ve tried talking to her but she gets very defensive, however she does know how I feel and where my beliefs stand. Anyway- thanks for the comment on my post and for the link.
God Bless!
We have God’s word that …..”the gates of hell shall not prevail against My Church”
If we belonged to the world and not to God we would have every justification to be afraid of confronting God in His holiness. But as it is there is no need to fear…we have been saved from the dominion of darkness and made a child of His Kingdom. God’s Kingdom is within us. We have a choice, our free will to choose.
We choose to go to hell and live ungodly lives or we choose to live in the light of God.
Both St Paul and Our Lady speak of the reality of Satan. Beneath the surface of the routine of daily lives, a fierce struggle among spiritual powers is being waged. The Virgin has said the stakes are high: human souls. Like wilfire, the power of evil forces can be devastating, often because it is disguised and its slow rot is not dramatic.
Our main defense the Madonna says is prayer with the heart and an awareness that the Evil One really does exist – for to be forwarned is to be forearmed. Let the Rosary in our hand be a sign that we belong to Our Lady. The praying of the Rosary is so powerful it can avert world wars. The weapons to combat the darkness of sin and hate are :
PRAYER
FASTING
SCRIPTURE READING
CONFESSION
HOLY MASS
We’re doomed … we’re doomed …
Don’t panic everybody … don’t panic …
We’re doomed I tell you … doomed !!!
OK. Enough of that for now. Let’s calm down a little and take a deep breath. All together now …
Let’s consider this:
Where is God? Is He hiding behind the settee and crying: “Oh dear, look at what is happening out there. It’s all gone wrong !!!”
Or is He still in control of the situation?
He knows what’s going wrong with the Church, with the world and with all our broken relationships and ill-feelings which our own sins have led us to.
He has allowed all this to happen for reasons best known to Himself, which are not for us to understand or even to question.
He knows what is wrong and He is still in control. We should thank Him and praise Him for being in control. And as we do so we acknowledge the fact that we trust Him to put right what needs to be put right. In His own time. According to His own will – not ours.
Yes, there’s plenty wrong in the Church and in the world. And there’s plenty right too. Not the least is opening our hearts to His Holy Spirit to abide in us and to restore the peace which at times may be weakening.
The deal is simple: We trust Him. He looks after us and protects us.
Now we’ve calmed down a little; let’s all say: “Amen”.
Fair enough, Victor, and no one would question what you say, in fact, we all believe it.
However, aren’t you interested in what’s going wrong and what laymen (inspired by the Holy Spirit) can do to staunch the flow, as it were?
Non sono d’accordo in certi punti. Cristo ha detto una volta “le forze degli inferi non prevarranno contro di essa”. La Chiesa non morirà,perchè vive già della resurrezione di Cristo. Non morirà ma si unirà alla Chiesa trionfante.
La chiesa infatti non è solo quella visibile o militante. Io voglio avere fiducia nelle Parole di Cristo risorto. Il male può attaccare la Chiesa perchè le parole di Cristo “non prevarranno” presuppongono un attacco,che si fa tanto più forte,quanto più ci avviciniamo alla seconda venuta di Cristo. Ma “non prevalebunt”. La Chiesa raggiungerà la Croce,ma non morirà. Dio è fedele.
Amen, Victor, Amen! 🙂
cara Cinzia non devi andare a letto con il cuore pesante…
per nessun motivo…come quel bambino a cui fu chiesto…se fra un’ora finisse il mondo cosa faresti…io correrei dalla mamma disse uno, io andrei a confessarmi disse un altro…ma lui rispose…io continuerei a giocare…
Tu sei nel mio cuore Signore
ed io sono nelle tue mani
cosa dovrò temere…
nulla dobbiamo temere…tutto ciò che sta accadendo sta scritto nelle bibbia…niente paura…però ti voglio togliere una romantica illusione…quella che il Papa sia un agnello…
Benedetto XVI è il primo dei lupi che divorano la credibilità del vangelo.
Il tuo ialiano è ottimo…come pure sta diventando la tua vista spirituale…ormai non c’ più nulla da salvare ma solo da abbattere.
io sono marchigiano e tu di quale regione sei…in italia intendo…
Caro Andrea Dicendo Che La Chiesa non morirà sconfessi le scritture … e parli per bocca di Satana come Pietro Quando cerco di impedire a Gesù di andare verso la sua passione e morte …
anche agli ebrei Dio aveva promesso un’alleanza eterna che però si è interrotta a causa della loro infedeltà…non prendere la bibbia alla lettera ma cogline lo spirito…
Hi Churchmouse,
Please see my previous comments starting with the 3rd one at the top of this long list.
Of course I’m angry and concerned at what is happening. But I’m confident that what is happening is according to His will. Yes, His will. He is allowing it to happen.
We don’t know why He is allowing it to happen. But we should calmly do what we are doing under instructions of the Holy Spirit. Through prayer He will show us the Way.
God bless you.
Well, I don’t see anyone not being calm about it. Why can’t people analyse this subject?
Sorry for the OT but I had to share this.
A beautiful Disco Mass held in France for Pentecost ^_^
Look at the video – a little over a minute of pure unadulterated horror!
http://vimeo.com/6884321
(most of the priests there look embarassed to me)!
OK, lets all cheer up a bit shall we? Have you seen this excellent video by Fr. Robert Barron? Maybe it will give us all a little hope that we can avoid the pains of hell…
http://catholicfire.blogspot.com/2009/10/father-barron-comments-on-hell.html
Let’s enter and enjoy the party of God’s love!
La Chiesa va ben al di là di ciò che vediamo. Le anime beate sono tuttora parte integrante della Chiesa. La Chiesa non perisce,ma soffre. David,sinceramente non condivido il tuo pensiero. I lupi ci sono,ma ratzinger non lo è affatto,anzi… Chi aderisce veramente alla Chiesa non è del mondo ma nel mondo. Chi non appartiene al mondo non muore,anche se dovesse passare attraverso la Croce.
I agree with Victor : here a passage from Colin Urquhart (Christian writer)
MY AUTHORITY – God speaking
I have total authority over all creation, the whole universe, I have authority in Heaven and over the devil; he only has leave to do what I allow. I have complete authority over the nations, I am able to raise up and pull down governments. I have authority over my church and I have authority over you as one of my children. My dear child, it is right to respect my Lordshop, to be in awe of my majesty and glory, but dont be afraid of me. It is not my purpose to demolish any of my children. I hear the heart cries of all my children, establishing righteousness through those who love me. While people are blaming me. I am at work in the situation, changing things! I want you to live in the hope of glory.
Lets remember that God is in control in all situations. Our part is to pray for all especially our leaders and avoid evil and do good…….God will do the rest.
Anne — thank you for the beautiful link. Very clear.
It reflects Korrigan’s comment up here and, on the whole, I think that from all the comments it is quite clear that we all know what this ‘hell’ doctrine is all about — refusing God’s love and His teachings.
But all of us who do our best (we are miserable sinners) to love God and follow His teachings must not shut our eyes to what is happening around us (as pointed out by Churchmouse). We learn, we know, we see, yes we are shaken but, as Victor says, our trust is always in the Lord!
The gates of hell will not prevail.
God bless you all.
David, come Andrea neanch’io posso condividere il tuo pensiere e ti chiedo cortesemente di non offendere il nostro Santo Padre.
Quello che lui ha insegnato e che insegna, quello che fa.. tutta la sua vita è esemplare. E’ un grande teologo e un grande Cattolico. Nulla da eccepire!
E’ la catena che da Pietro arriva a noi.
Per favore, non dire più certe cose..
After Deanna’s shocking video link 😦
Here’s one that will make our souls soar unto high …..
anche Gesù parlava male dei capi della sinagoga…li chiamava ipocriti, razza di vipere, sepolcri imbiancati…chi ama la verità la dice senza girarci intorno.
prima di amare la chiesa e i suoi rappresentanti dobbiamo amare ed avere rispetto della verità…vi ho già detto che l’unico riferimento stabile di Dio in terra è la sacra scrittura tutto il resto è in movimento…Papi compresi.
Sono certo che avrete un opinione idilliaca anche di Giovanni Paolo secondo…un Papa simpatico mediatico che piaceva a tutti, nemici compresi, un Papa che è entrato nei nostri cuori…ma nei nostri cuori ha portato tanto miele… ma poco sale.
Io ho tutta un’altra idea di come dovrebbe essere un testimone di Cristo e vi assicuro che in Vaticano nessuno gli assomiglia neppure lontanamente…
Eh no caro david quando ce vò ce vò e se dobbiamo dire qualcosa dei papi o dei vescovi ke nn fanno il loro dovere noi lo diciamo e come lo diciamo!
Ma nn possiamo giudicare un Papa che fa il suo dovere e vive cristianamente senza alcuna prova come fai te.
Personalmente amo il Pastore Tedesco ma il GPII non mi era tanto simpatico – forse xke riempiva le piazze.
Preferisco il Pastore Tedesco ke cerca di riempire le chiese!
Meditate gente meditate.
…riempiva le piazze? Che c’è di male. Mediatico? Che c’è di male. Tutti devono vedere le opere di chi è mandato da Dio,perchè sono opere di luce,opere di Verità. Deve essere chiaro a tutti,anche ai nemici,anche ai lontani,anche agli ayatollah. E Dio lo permette e dice anche “dalle loro opere li riconoscerete”.
“E il giudizio è questo: la luce è venuta nel mondo, ma gli uomini hanno preferito le tenebre alla luce, perché le loro opere erano malvagie. Chiunque infatti fa il male, odia la luce e non viene alla luce perché non siano svelate le sue opere. MA CHI OPERA LA VERITA’ VIENE ALLA LUCE, perché appaia chiaramente che le sue opere sono state fatte in Dio”.
Dio suscita i carismi come e quando vuole e prende da ciò che ha suscitato come e quando vuole in base alle esigenze della storia e della Chiesa.
Sono contrario sia al pensiero delle persone che non vedono bene razinger,sia al pensiero delle persone che dicono meglio il secondo che il primo o viceversa.
Se sono a commentare in questo luogo e anche grazie alle testimonianze viventi di uomini come il Grande Karol. Di uomini nati sotto il segno delle comete ne passano poche nella storia.
Tutti devono vedere. Tutti hanno bisogno di Verità.
“Il Signore ha dato,il Signore ha tolto”.Amen.
David: per rispondere alla tua domanda di tanti commenti fa (devi alzare gli occhi al cielo 🙂 … mio papa’ era toscano, mia mamma siciliana, pero’ quando ero in Italia abitavo a Roma -la citta’ piu’ bella del mondo – e non voglio sentire discussioni in merito da nessuno, nemmeno dal Papa !!
Da troppi anni ormai mi trovo in esilio in Australia 😦 povera scongiurata, triste, demoralizzata fanciulla -> me !!! boo hoo hoo 😦
L’altra risposta: tu mi dici di non temere …. io ho detto che andavo a dormire con il cuore pesante. Non intendevo dire che ho paura – no – intendevo dire che mi sento molto rattristata da tutto quello che ho letto qui oggi, cioe’ ieri.
David, se mi permetti un’altra cosa – non impuntarti su determinate cose. Avrai anche ragione su certi argomenti. Ma ascolta quello che dicono anche gli altri. Non e’ mai possibile che solo una persona ha tutte le risposte giuste e tutti gli altri si sbagliano. Per esempio il discorso dell’Eucarestia, e quello del Santo Padre.
Ciao Marchigiano – give a kiss to the Bel Paese for me 🙂
Cara: Yes I live in Melbourne. Whereabouts are you?
Everyone: I believe Torkel has summed up magnificently the whole 50 or so comments on this thread.
…E non dimentichiamoci che se siamo su internet a parlare di Dio è proprio grazie a Karol,che ha benedetto,incoraggiato ed avviato questa impresa di nuova evangelizzazione. Tra tanto male che c’è nella rete,ci sono anche tanti luoghi come quello di gabriella e di tantissimi altri. Ogni cosa può essere utilizzata per la gloria di Dio. Ognuno ha i propri talenti e e i propri carismi,non è che possiamo cambiare il mondo,perchè solo Dio può cambiare il mondo,ma è doveroso impegnarsi. “Beato quel servo che il padrone arrivando troverà al suo lavoro”. Questo vale anche quando la Chiesa potrebbe sembrare,apparentemente sventrata o distrutta. Questo vale in tutte le nostre cose,in tutta la nostra vita,che unita a Cristo,partecipa della Sua grandezza,grandezza che va al di là di ogni universo materiale esistente. Siamo così bassi rispetto alle nubi che passano sulle nostre teste,ma uniti Lui,innalzando Lui nella nostra vita,superiamo il cielo in altezza e l’univrso in grandezza con tutto ciò che esso contiene. Perchè siamo chiamati alla eternità e alla universalità di Dio. E questo che dobbiamo capire,è questo che devono capire i ragazzi,che si perdono nelle faccende del mondo,vere e poprie vittime di una falsa cultura instaurata dai padri.Ed in questo mi sembra di concordare con David. La corsa di un giovane di oggi sembra una corsa verso la morte in tutti i punti di vista. Le consuetudini della società di oggi o della società di sempre. Una vita senza un vero senso. In questo potrebbe insegnarci anche la grande esperienza di Cristopher Johnson Mccandless(pace su di lui). “La vera felicità è quella condivisa”. Chi è più felice di un uomo che condivide la propria vita con Dio? Chi ha il coraggio di vivere controcorrente? Di liberarsi dalle droghe di una società avvelenata dalla consuetidine. Tutti fanno,ma non sanno cosa fanno e perchè. Senza valori,senza bandiere. Solo illusioni seguite da vuoti seguiti da altre illusioni,fino a morire, a spegnersi lentamente.
Hello Victor – permit me to say this: no one here is panicking – what makes you think that?
We are simply having a very useful and meaningful international discussion on two very important subjects: the Catholic clery and hell 🙂
It is right, and our duty as Christians, that we should look at issues such as Churchmouse and others have put forward. They are rather scary and urgent issues and very REAL. Therefore it is not always the best solution to pretend they don’t exist or simply shut one’s eyes hoping they will evaporate.
I believe open and honest discussions like this one are fantastic! And listening to lots of different opinions, ideas, wisdoms, examples, teachings, whatever … is the best way to learn and open one’s mind and heart.
No offence intended of course: just thought you were trying to say to everyone, okay don’t panic and let’s just shut up now and move on.
Cheers!
cara Cinzia se tu sei una fanciulla povera triste e demoralizzata allora puoi gioire perché così ci vuole il Signore…beati coloro che soffrono…beati coloro che hanno fame e sete…
tu hai un’anima bellissima… comincio a conoscerti e mi piace il tuo candore, la tua apertura verso tutti, il tuo slancio genuino…mi piace il tuo parlare chiaro e semplice…sei una pagina di vangelo.
Beh! veramente scherzavo un pochino a riguardo la povera disperata fanciulla, (anche se l’Australia non mi piace davvero) … era una frase che diceva sempre il mio papa’ ogni qualvolta mi vedeva un po’ giu’ di spirito … per tirarmi su, diceva: “eh povera disperata fanciulla” e mi faceva ridere.
Ti ringrazio dei complimenti – ammazza! Credi davvero che sono cosi’ come mi descrivi? Mo’ quella faccetta gialla e’ diventata rossa !! 🙂
Scherzi a parte – ti ringrazio – pero’ “una pagina di vangelo” non so …. “schiarisce la gola” …. non credo! Non esaggeriamo! 🙂
Ciao! Vado a leggere ancora i tuoi scritti, cosi’ forse anche io posso cominciare a conoscerti meglio.
Holy Mother Church is without stain, without error.
The hierarchy of the Church has been in error. The Bride of Christ can do no wrong. To say the Church is in error is sacrilegious.
….”Is there somewhere a bishop so honest as to stand up and tell me the Church has been teaching for the past three decades, exactly what it taught 50 years ago?…”
Yes, there are four: Bishops Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson, and Alfonso de Galarreta. They were consecrated Bishops to the chagrin of the Freemasons infiltrated into the Vatican hierarchy by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. (Even the FSSP and other mainline traditional groups sprang forth from this modern day Saint Athanasius).
These four Bishops can look the Holy Father right in his face and tell him they have continued not only the True Mass, but have also provided the Sacraments properly, and Catechized the Faithful in true Roman Catholicism.
This is not an open endorsement of Traditionalists. The laity of the Traditionalists camp can be some extremely vicious people. Many Priests of the SSPX are suffering at the hands of Traditionalists who somehow have come to believe they ‘own’ the Church and the Priests must obey their wishes and ask their permission for projects the Priests undertake to extend Christ’s Kingdom. There is a diabolical disorientation, and many have fallen into Traditional Gnosticism. The smoke of Satan.
Please pray for Priests, especially for the suffering ones.
God writes straight with crooked lines. Whatever His will, is ours. Let us bear with patience and Faith this time of tribulation; it is only the beginning of our trials.
I’m in agreement with Asmarina. The way for us is through:
PRAYER
FASTING
SCRIPTURE READING
CONFESSION
HOLY MASS
May God our Lord in his infinite and supreme goodness be pleased to give us his abundant grace, that we may know his most holy will, and entirely fulfill it.
When we have problems with Bishops or Priests, the proper venue to take those concerns is to our mother. Therefore,
I entrust this whole matter in the hands of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, “Mother of the Priest par excellence, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and through Him, of all priests in whom she forms her Son”.
Santa María de Guadalupe Esperanza nuestra, salva nuestra patria y conserva nuestra Fe.
Thanks, Pablo, for clarifying — the ‘hierarchy is in error’, although it seems that some people do not really care. We must separate the hierarchy from the teachings of the Church, and, unfortunately, some laity (in misplaced piety) connect the two. With regard to the US, that is probably because of the pronouncements of the American bishops, the USCCB.
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